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#169597 - 01/08/20 03:41 AM Iran
springer2 Offline
Pooh-Bah


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1707
Loc: Temecula, CA
Regardless of how you feel about the strike on Suleimani, is anyone else uncomfortable about the fact that two weeks ago the intelligence agencies were clearly threats to our Republic that cannot be believed about anything and now, after the strike, they are touted by the same people as being beyond reproach in their assessment of the threat Suleimani presented?

I know Tucker Carlson is: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...Ikda?li=BBnbcA1

Springer
_________________________
I never use a big word when a diminutive word will suffice.


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#169598 - 01/08/20 03:53 AM Re: Iran [Re: springer2]
springer2 Offline
Pooh-Bah


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1707
Loc: Temecula, CA
Also, while bombing our bases in Iraq is clearly an act of war, so is killing a general in another country's military. You couldn't have expected any other response from Iran. I don't know why everyone seems so surprised at this retaliation.

I've long believed that the integrity of most public officials is suspect at best, so it's no surprise to me, but the partisanship and hypocritical nature of politicians on both sides is mind-boggling to me.

Springer
_________________________
I never use a big word when a diminutive word will suffice.


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#169602 - 01/08/20 03:22 PM Re: Iran [Re: springer2]
jmill Offline
Full Shrike


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 5693

Killing a terrorist like Soleimani, whether he was given the title of general or not, is not an act of war, unless you consider planning and instigating the violent take over and destruction of a US Embassy by your proxies, and arming and ordering your proxies to kill American contractors with bombs, both of which Soleimani did, an act of war. If so, then killing Soleimani is an act of war. The previous examples are just two among hundreds (thousands?) of acts of terrorism that Soleimani has perpetrated, largely against Americans.

This all begs the question: when have we NOT been at war with Iran since 1979? Do you consider the takeover of the American embassy in that year and the taking of 52 American hostages for 444 days an act of war? I do. Iran has been trying to destroy the West in general, and the US in particular, ever since. They are the greatest purveyors of terrorism in the world, and it is an official function of their state organism. Soleimani hiding behind a general's uniform is like terrorists hiding amongst schoolchildren to avoid being attacked. Civilized countries don't allow their soldiers to do that. Iran is a terrorist state by definition. Soleimani was the second highest ranking official in Iran, just below their ayatollah, elected government notwithstanding.

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#169603 - 01/08/20 03:32 PM Re: Iran [Re: jmill]
Peter McKenna Offline
old hand


Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 1167
Loc: Louisiana
Soleimani was the head of the Quds force, the arm of Iranís military supporting terrorism. He was ostensibly supporting, both providing arms and logistically, Hamas and Hezbollah. The details of what current actions against US targets he was planning are not available and Iím sure are classified. We should not shrink from protecting ourselves for fear that the opponent might get angry and retaliate.

The removal and assassination of Mohammar Khaddafi was engineered by the Obama administration. It was a US drone (NATO strike force) that struck his vehicle and likely US arms that killed him. That action, prosecuted without notifying Congress, led directly to Benghazi and the death of the US ambassador and several others.

The hypocrisy is staggering.


https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/20...-soleimani/amp/

PS I could not find the article corroborating that Obama didnít notify Congress as stated in the Breitbart article. I had read it in a couple places and from reputable sources.


Edited by Peter McKenna (01/08/20 03:53 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammatical corrections
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Peter McKenna

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#169604 - 01/08/20 04:54 PM Re: Iran [Re: jmill]
jmill Offline
Full Shrike


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 5693

Some Democrats are saying that killing Soleimani was wrong because he's an Iranian "General". Simply giving him the title of general is somehow supposed to legitimize any activity in which he engages. Sorry, but that's akin to saying that since Joe Biden has the title of "presidential contender" he is now immune to being investigated for corruption he may have been involved in. It's nonsense.

And let's not forget that Soleimani actively participated in killing American soldiers who were in Iraq, getting rid of Iran's greatest enemy at the time, Saddam Hussein. Iran and Iraq had fought an eight-year war that bled both countries dry, from 1980 to 1989, a brutal affair that featured the Iranians sending children as young as fifteen out onto the battlefield to test for mines by walking over them. There are streets all over Iran with pictures of these teenage "martytrs" from that conflict. Saddam Hussein was their most hated enemy.

So what could possibly have been the reason for Iran, under the direct control of their chief terrorist Soleimani, for being in the middle of the Iraq invasion in 2003, training and assisting Shiite militias in planting roadside IEDs and orchestrating as much death and injury as possible to American soldiers? Is that an act of war? I say it is.

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#169605 - 01/08/20 07:42 PM Re: Iran [Re: jmill]
jryan Offline
Hardcase


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 8600
Loc: Oakton VA
If Soleimani is a General then his hostile actions against the US are acts of war by the nation of Iran.

Therefor the strike against Soleimani was military retaliation, not an act of naked aggression.

The only thing that I am gray on now is if the Iranians meant to miss with their missiles or if their announcement following the attack asking the US to please not retaliate was in response to their realization that not only do their missiles not fire properly a third of the time, but also can't hit the broad side of an airport.

Also, the amazing thing about all of this is that the Iranian leadership knows they were beaten, they know they capitulated... and more importantly, all of their proxies know that they capitulated to the Great Satan... so the only people who seem to buy into Iranian propaganda is the Western Media and Democrat voters.
_________________________
ďScience is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsĒ - Richard Feynman

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#169607 - 01/08/20 08:38 PM Re: Iran [Re: jryan]
Epo9 Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 238
Loc: US
 Originally Posted By: jryan
If Soleimani is a General then his hostile actions against the US are acts of war by the nation of Iran.

Therefor the strike against Soleimani was military retaliation, not an act of naked aggression.

The only thing that I am gray on now is if the Iranians meant to miss with their missiles or if their announcement following the attack asking the US to please not retaliate was in response to their realization that not only do their missiles not fire properly a third of the time, but also can't hit the broad side of an airport.

Also, the amazing thing about all of this is that the Iranian leadership knows they were beaten, they know they capitulated... and more importantly, all of their proxies know that they capitulated to the Great Satan... so the only people who seem to buy into Iranian propaganda is the Western Media and Democrat voters.


To be fair, I'm sure plenty of Democrat voters don't buy it, but still have no interest in further Middle East conflict and will let criticism fly. I've heard similar criticism from the right, so there's something reassuring to be gleaned. As for some of the media outlets response, I have little explanation. Maybe a combination of youthful inexperience/ideology and generating clicks. Perhaps piggy-backing on the tweets of vocal, self-promoting celebrities. Too many possibilities, yet all predictable.

Either way, the outcome as we've heard is possibly the most reassuring to me. Iran having seemingly warned the Iraqi prime minister of the attack seems to indicate an intention to cause enough of a fuss not to warrant heavy retaliation, but the extremely short-lived televised reports on their end of "80 casualties" or however many they settled on is baffling, when both American and Iraqi reports discredited this. Let's hope deterrence settled and no more missiles fly either way I suppose.


Edited by Epo9 (01/08/20 08:38 PM)

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#169608 - 01/09/20 09:01 PM Re: Iran [Re: Epo9]
Epo9 Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 238
Loc: US
"The Ukrainian flight that crashed in Iran was 'highly likely' shot down by a missile, according to reported US intelligence"

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-flight-752-shot-down-by-anti-aircraft-missile-2020-1

A face-saving botched missile barrage combined with this seemingly likely disaster of Iran's does not make for a great week in world PR for them. They of course took the usual route of denial and declared it a scientific impossibility. To their credit, this was before verified footage was released that seemed to show an Iranian missile striking the plane after takeoff...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

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#169609 - 01/10/20 06:05 AM Re: Iran [Re: Epo9]
Dan Simmons Administrator Offline
CEO of the Hegemony


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 11210
Loc: Colorado
Dan S. comments:

A ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee explained on Thursday afternoon that the Iranians shooting down the Ukraine jet just outside of Tehran was the fault of Donald Trump.

https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/121543...Ybt4EoIbLUpTK3w

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#169610 - 01/10/20 04:06 PM Re: Iran [Re: Dan Simmons]
Epo9 Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 238
Loc: US
Hopefully most of us are desensitized to this very predictable response. As far as political purchase goes, no tragedy need be squandered, I suppose.
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