Home        About Dan        News        Books        Forum        Art
 
   
Page 5 of 10 « First<34567>Last »
Topic Options
#169504 - 12/26/19 03:21 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
ColinFraizer Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 147
Loc: Indiana, USA
And you know what power Congress has to prevent Russians (or anyone) from publishing ads or speaking in favor of or against anyone: precisely none!

"Congress shall make no law […] abridging freedom of speech, or of the press".

Anyone can say or print and distribute anything they want. I, for one, am thankful for that.

The self-appointed "guardians" of those rights who call themselves "The Press" relentlessly pursue an agenda of undermining it. They want us to believe that the 1Am establishes an institution, when it does not. The U.S. has no "fourth estate". Every man is free to speak and publish as he wills and our Media would-be overlords hate it.

Those employed in professional media long endlessly for a world where expressions of opinion were tightly controlled and constrained to a few government-approved sources. They seethe that more than half the country has ignored their (endless, tiresome) attempts to undo the last presidential election.

So, setting aside your irritation at whatever impact Russians attempted to make on the last presidential election—which, by all accounts was minimal, what exactly do you hate about President Trump?

Oh, I guess we also need to set aside your anger at his impugning the integrity of federal law enforcement, intelligence, and diplomatic employees. Why? Because they have repeatedly been revealed to have lacked integrity. They pursued their own agendas in contravention of the law and of administration policy.

I don't like all his policies, so I can kick things off with a few:

1. I favor free movement of people in and out of the U.S. [I fear that, should Bernie or Warren take power, they'll complete the wall. You'll just need permission to get OUT.]
2. I oppose Pres. Trump's trade protectionism (but have to concede that it has been apparently less harmful than I had feared—so far).

Top
#169505 - 12/26/19 04:09 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: ColinFraizer]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Originally Posted By: ColinFraizer
And you know what power Congress has to prevent Russians (or anyone) from publishing ads or speaking in favor of or against anyone: precisely none!


And? Does that mean we want a candidate for president asking for and receiving information from a foreign adversary in order to help him/her in any way, big or small, win an election in the United States? And then doing so again and again because he feels he did nothing wrong. First I guess I should ask do you think it is wrong for any candidate running for office in the United States to ask for and receive foreign assistance to help them win election. I sure as hell don’t.

 Originally Posted By: ColinFraizer
Anyone can say or print and distribute anything they want. I, for one, am thankful for that.


That's the First Amendment and I have no problem with it. But there are limits that I'm sure you would agree with? No yelling fire in a theater. Unless of course there is a fire in the theater.

 Originally Posted By: ColinFraizer
The self-appointed "guardians" of those rights who call themselves "The Press" relentlessly pursue an agenda of undermining it. They want us to believe that the 1Am establishes an institution, when it does not. The U.S. has no "fourth estate". Every man is free to speak and publish as he wills and our Media would-be overlords hate it.

Those employed in professional media long endlessly for a world where expressions of opinion were tightly controlled and constrained to a few government-approved sources. They seethe that more than half the country has ignored their (endless, tiresome) attempts to undo the last presidential election.


Those are some very strong thoughts and opinions on the media. I’m afraid I don't really share any of them. Sounds a little paranoid if I'm being honest.

 Originally Posted By: ColinFraizer
So, setting aside your irritation at whatever impact Russians attempted to make on the last presidential election—which, by all accounts was minimal, what exactly do you hate about President Trump?

Oh, I guess we also need to set aside your anger at his impugning the integrity of federal law enforcement, intelligence, and diplomatic employees. Why? Because they have repeatedly been revealed to have lacked integrity. They pursued their own agendas in contravention of the law and of administration policy.


You can set aside those factors if you wish, but I don’t. I also don’t agree with your argument against them. As for what I hate about DT, I don’t have time to list them tonight. But if you go back and read my posts on this thread and the other one I’m sure you will be able to figure out mostly what I hate about him.

 Originally Posted By: ColinFraizer
I don't like all his policies, so I can kick things off with a few:

1. I favor free movement of people in and out of the U.S. [I fear that, should Bernie or Warren take power, they'll complete the wall. You'll just need permission to get OUT.]
2. I oppose Pres. Trump's trade protectionism (but have to concede that it has been apparently less harmful than I had feared—so far).


Your number one problem I don’t understand it at all. What gives you any idea that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren would complete the wall? They, like all Democrats running for president are totally against the wall. So am I. I want a comprehensive immigration plan that we could have had in the recent past if it wasn’t for Republicans.

Problem number two I believe is worse than you think. And I am against it as well. Look at all the welfare he has had to give to the farmers (mostly the big farm corporations) because of the stupid tariffs.

Greg
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

Top
#169506 - 12/26/19 03:46 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Enright Offline
Super User


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3593
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/08/bipartisan-senate-report-undercuts-trumps-account-of-2016-meddling/

Exactly what the Senate intelligence report said but they also make clear the Russians were doing so to benefit Trump's campaign and hurt Hillary's.
. . .
Greg


NBC News: "The case that the Russian campaign was explicitly intended to elect Trump is not something the U.S. could prove in court, officials say, which in part explains why FBI briefers have been more reluctant to embrace that position in secret briefings to Congress than have intelligence officials. Other intelligence agencies have not endorsed the CIA view, but no entity is known to oppose it."

In other words, the charge, mostly promoted by the CIA, is inferential, not factual. But as near as I can tell the ad buys alone don't support even the inference:

"Among the targets of that campaign, black Americans received special attention. More than 66 percent of the IRA’s Facebook advertisements contained terms related to race and those ads mostly targeted black metropolitan populations. One of the IRA’s most popular Facebook pages, dubbed 'Blacktivist,' resulted in 11.2 million engagements. Half of the IRA’s most popular Instagram accounts targeted black Americans, and its Twitter trolls gave particular focus to issues with racial overtones, such as the debate over the decision by NFL players to kneel during the playing of the national anthem to protest police killings of people of color.

“'No single group of Americans was targeted by IRA information operatives more than African-Americans,' the report concludes."

If anything, this strong emphasis on the targeting and stirring-up of race issues in the African-American community makes no sense as an attempt to elect Trump, but much more sense as an attempt to elect Hillary. What is the mechanism by which Trump would benefit more by them than Hillary?

In absolutely astonishing percentages blacks vote overwhelmingly for Democrats. Pew Research said that in 2016, protestant blacks voted for Hillary by 96%. Race issues are known to play a strong motivating role in that lopsidedness.

So why would you even target African-Americans for ads at all if you wanted to elect Trump? It's such infertile ground to sow the seed.

The Russians must be the dumbest of people if they were trying to elect Trump with racial ads targeted at black Americans.


Edited by Enright (12/26/19 04:52 PM)
_________________________
Jim

Top
#169509 - 12/26/19 06:11 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Enright]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Originally Posted By: Enright
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/08/bipartisan-senate-report-undercuts-trumps-account-of-2016-meddling/

Exactly what the Senate intelligence report said but they also make clear the Russians were doing so to benefit Trump's campaign and hurt Hillary's.
. . .
Greg


NBC News: "The case that the Russian campaign was explicitly intended to elect Trump is not something the U.S. could prove in court, officials say, which in part explains why FBI briefers have been more reluctant to embrace that position in secret briefings to Congress than have intelligence officials. Other intelligence agencies have not endorsed the CIA view, but no entity is known to oppose it."

In other words, the charge, mostly promoted by the CIA, is inferential, not factual. But as near as I can tell the ad buys alone don't support even the inference:


That is from 2016. There have been more investigations and insight since then.

Here are a few interesting articles worth reading.

From Roll Call is this article talking about all the agencies agreeing in 2017 that the Russians interfered to help get DT elected.

https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/r...hallenging-barr

Another from TIME talking about the 2017 assessment that DT was Russia’s boy.

https://time.com/5340060/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit-russia-meddling/

The Senate intelligence report (bipartisan).

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t...s-idUSKBN1JT2YB

Greg
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

Top
#169510 - 12/26/19 06:57 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Mike F Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 155
Loc: Chico, CA.
Wondering if anyone can quote straight from the reports referenced above that the Russians stepped in in favor of Trump exclusively and what their evidence is. I've had enough misleading analysis of these things from the press.

ETA:

I would also like to know why the Russians were in such a terror of Hillary winning the election.


Edited by Mike F (12/26/19 07:13 PM)
_________________________
"I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy." ~Eric Holder

Top
#169511 - 12/26/19 07:52 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Mike F]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
Mike F, The answer to your last question is because Hillary wouldn’t have been Vladimir Putin‘s puppet.

II. (U) FINDINGS

1. (U),The Committee found,that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton's chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction ofthe Kremlin.

(U) The Committee found that the IRA's :lnformation warfare campaign was broad in scope and entailed objectives beyond the result ofthe 2016 presidential election. Further, the Committee's analysis of the IRA's activities on social media supports the key judgments of the January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment, "Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections," that "Russia's, goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton,· and harm her electability and potential presidency."5 However, where the Intelligence Community assessed that the Russian government "aspired to help President-elect Trump's election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him," the Committee found that IRA social media activity was overtly and almost invariably supportive ofthen-candidate Trump, and to the detriment.of Secretary Clinton's campaign.6 ·

Taken directly from the Senate intelligence committee findings. A PDF file you can find here:

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf

Greg, this is the bipartisan Senate report ran by Republicans!


Edited by Shrike1 (12/26/19 07:59 PM)
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

Top
#169512 - 12/27/19 05:00 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Mike F Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 155
Loc: Chico, CA.
Could you please explain to me how Donald Trump has conducted himself as "Putin's puppet"? Other than on that very public occasion where Trump was goaded to instantly decide on the spot whether or not to issue an immediate slap to Putin's face in person and in front of a world audience?

ETA:

Could you please explain how Hillary would conduct herself differently?


Edited by Mike F (12/27/19 05:04 AM)
_________________________
"I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy." ~Eric Holder

Top
#169513 - 12/27/19 09:15 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Mike F]
Enright Offline
Super User


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3593
Loc: CA
Here's the text of one of the Russian ads showing how the Russians were all about promoting Donald Trump's election:

Ad Text: A 13-year-old child was tasered by cop for skateboarding.

A San Diego sheriff's deputy was filmed tasering 13-year-old child in the spine for skateboarding. Witnesses reported that the cop tried to force them to delete videos from their phones. Videos show how the child writhes in agony from being tased. Police said that the child ran away from home and was missing for a day-and-half. However it doesn't give the reason to taser a child.

We see another case of police misconduct when the policeman actually attacked the child. This case should reach the court, because the child hasn't done anything unlawful. The policeman exceeded his powers and used force against a child. So he should be punished. Before the trial nothing's gonna change and cops are about to do whatever they want. The task of all Americans who have witnessed police brutality is to extend all the information about it in order to reach out the government and the court.

Ad Landing Page https://www.facebook.com/Black-Matters-1579673598947501/Ad Targeting location: United States: Baltimore Maryland; Ferguson, St.Louis Missouri; Cleveland Ohio
Age:18-65+ Placements: News Feed on desktop computers or News Feed on mobile devices
People Who Match: People who like Black Matters, Friends of connections: Friends of people who are connected to Black Matters
_________________________
Jim

Top
#169514 - 12/27/19 06:42 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Mike F]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Originally Posted By: Mike F
Could you please explain to me how Donald Trump has conducted himself as "Putin's puppet"? Other than on that very public occasion where Trump was goaded to instantly decide on the spot whether or not to issue an immediate slap to Putin's face in person and in front of a world audience?

ETA:

Could you please explain how Hillary would conduct herself differently?


That is one of the best examples of DT acting as “Putin’s puppet” and it would have been the perfect opportunity for him to show some backbone and stand with America and its intelligence agencies by announcing right there in public that Vladimir Putin and Russia were the ones responsible for the 2016 election interference. Instead we get the squirming measly mouthed response, “I don’t see any reason why it would be”. Cowardly unpatriotic.

How is that too much to ask an American president? I guess Ronald Reagan should have been more polite when saying, “tear down this wall”! That’s what American officials and leaders do. They go to other countries (China, Russia etc.) and speak out against human rights abuses, freedom of the press abuses and the rights of citizens in those countries to be able to protest without fear of death or imprisonment.

The reason Putin would rather have Donald Trump as president and not Hillary Clinton is very obvious. Trump is inexperienced, narcissistic and easily manipulated. He is fond of dictators and strongman like Putin and Kim Jong Un. Trump also doesn’t seem that keen on NATO.

Hillary Clinton on the other hand is known to be very knowledgeable on the issues and also a hawk (or at least more of a hawk than Pres. Obama was) when it comes to foreign affairs. She has dealt with Putin as Secretary of State and he has reasons not to like her going back years. It’s all out there on the web.

Greg

PS – were you satisfied with the direct quotes I gave you from the Senate intelligence committee report and the PDF file?
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

Top
#169515 - 12/27/19 08:37 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
jmill Offline
Full Shrike


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 5714
Loc: Earth

Greg, you border on delusional in your assessment of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Your claim that Trump is easily manipulated by Putin and others is laughable. It was Hillary Clinton with her idiotic "reset button" that showed who was easily manipulated. She is a no-talent coattail rider with absolutely NOTHING on her resume to indicate any kind of expertise in ANYTHING, not even as Senator (name her signature legislation) or Secretary of State (name her successes -- you can't; but we can sure name off her failures: Russian reset, Ben Ghazi...) She coattailed her husband all the way, and then couldn't even win a presidential race twice, despite massive advantages. She called half of America deplorables (I sure hope you don't agree with that assessment too because that would indicate to me that you are driven by utter contempt for anyone who doesn't think in hive-minded lockstep with the left (is that you?), not honest care for the future of this nation).

Trump is many things, but a sucker he is not. That's why the Chinese are finally being kicked in the crotch over their predatory trade practices, and their economy is suffering for it, and the little rocket man is desperate for attention and futilely casting about for some way to get back in the headlines, and Russia has been thwarted in their dealings with the Ukraine and Eastern Europe because Trump is willing to give them weapons, unlike your hero Obama. That's why the insane Iranian nuclear go-ahead deal that Obama negotiated is dead, and the pressure is back on the Iranians through sanctions and they are getting desperate again, and could have their next revolution sooner than later. Obama and Clinton were pathetic in their foreign policy, and had that two-time loser Hillary been elected there's no question in my mind that she would have remained true to herself and utterly screwed the pooch. Trump got us out of the insane Paris Accords, which your heroes were so willing to agree to, and would have destroyed the American economy. Do you believe that the world is ending in 8 years now if we don't collapse our economy, as do all those Hollywood and Silicon Valley hypocrites who fly all over the world in their private jets? You believe in letting a 16-year old mentally ill little girl from Norway set policy for the world? Do you think the likes of ANTIFA are great American heroes, or are they simply the new Brown Shirts, as their fascist tactics fully indicate?

You remind me of Paul Krugman who predicted that the economy would tank and NEVER recover if Trump was elected. Now look at the economy and the stock market. I'm sure you are benefiting in some way from this booming economy, but you'll never admit it, will you? Neither will that moron Krugman. No, you'd rather put a Democratic dinosaur like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren in the White House, begging for socialism like the Hollywood crowd and Michael Moore and so many brainless millennials like Alexandria Occasional Cortex are doing. The stupidity of their thought processes is mind boggling.

Worst of all: you've said NOTHING about the lies and unfairness and political danger of this impeachment horse shit. You'd rather see the United States destroyed by political ambition rather than uphold the constitution and the intent of the original framers. Trump has done nothing impeachable or illegal. Let me repeat that: Trump has done nothing impeachable or illegal. To use the impeachment process to try and undo an election is a de facto coup. Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer and every other Democrat in favor of this travesty should be kicked out of office, and I hope the people of this country deliver a stunning rebuke to Democrats in 2020. In fact, I hope the Democratic Party is effectively destroyed in this election. I want to see unAmerican thinkers like Pelosi and Schiff and Schumer out on their asses. You think you're mad and upset about Trump being elected? You aint seen nothing yet.
_________________________
"Long is the way and hard that out of Hell leads up to light." -John Milton

Top
Page 5 of 10 « First<34567>Last »


Hop to:

Generated in 0.032 seconds in which 0.008 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries. Zlib compression disabled.

Home    Books    Curtis on Publishing   Previews    Bio    Bibliography    Snapshots     Foreign News    Reader's Forum    Art