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#169451 - 12/14/19 04:31 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Little John Offline
old hand


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 876
Loc: Bryan, TX
And there it is.

We can both look at the very same set of facts and come to opposite conclusions. It's as if we live in parallel, intersecting universes where we can see, hear, talk to and even touch each other... but our minds occupy completely different realms of reality.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.
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Paul Massie

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#169452 - 12/14/19 05:03 AM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Little John]
Peter McKenna Offline
old hand


Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 1173
Loc: Louisiana
The only “invitation” made to a foreign national to meddle in our election process that is apparent here, in either the “Russian Collusion” investigation or the Impeachment hearings, was to Christopher Steele via the Steele dossier, as Steele is a British national, and the dossier has been vetted out as largely invention. Despite the Horowitz report, to bring the Steele dossier into a FISA warrant court was absolutely a piece of partisan engineering as it was paid for by the Democratic Party. Or doesn’t that count?

Schiff doesn’t like Trump. I don’t like him much myself. But to lead what is ostensibly a coup d’tat by other means is patent subversion of the Presidency (and the constitution) by Congress. Neither “abuse of office” or obstruction of Congress are criminal acts and could be applied to most any President. Schiff is violating his oath of office. I wouldn’t buy a toothbrush from that beady eyed shill.

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#169453 - 12/14/19 05:03 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Little John]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Originally Posted By: Little John
And there it is.

We can both look at the very same set of facts and come to opposite conclusions. It's as if we live in parallel, intersecting universes where we can see, hear, talk to and even touch each other... but our minds occupy completely different realms of reality.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.


I agree that is what it looks like, but in reality that isn't the case. Here are the facts:

Obama is expressing his optimism that when he is reelected he will be in a better position to get things done. DT on the other hand is asking Russia for help trying to get elected. One has nothing to do with the other. So I will ask again, in what universe is what Obama did "inviting foreigners into our election process"? We know there are numerous examples of DT doing so.

Greg
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Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

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#169454 - 12/14/19 05:08 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Peter McKenna Offline
old hand


Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 1173
Loc: Louisiana
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1



So I will ask again, in what universe is what Obama did "inviting foreigners into our election process"? We know there are numerous examples of DT doing so.

Greg


Please list these “numerous examples” that “we know” of.
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Peter McKenna

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#169455 - 12/14/19 05:26 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Little John]
springer2 Offline
Pooh-Bah


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1715
Loc: Temecula, CA
 Originally Posted By: Little John
And there it is.

We can both look at the very same set of facts and come to opposite conclusions. It's as if we live in parallel, intersecting universes where we can see, hear, talk to and even touch each other... but our minds occupy completely different realms of reality.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.


Unfortunately this seems to be the default state of our country these days.
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I never use a big word when a diminutive word will suffice.


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#169456 - 12/14/19 05:34 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Peter McKenna]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Originally Posted By: Peter McKenna
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1



So I will ask again, in what universe is what Obama did "inviting foreigners into our election process"? We know there are numerous examples of DT doing so.

Greg


Please list these “numerous examples” that “we know” of.


Man you're slick. Since you can't answer my question you ask me to answer yours. I'll play this game for now. But if you would be so kind and answer my question I think it would be more fair.

Once is too many times and we know he did it at least twice in public with Russia and China & I will throw in Ukraine even though it was a little more than just inviting them.

But I guess "technically" you are correct there were not "numerous examples" that we know about.

Greg, I await your answer…


Edited by Shrike1 (12/14/19 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarity
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

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#169457 - 12/14/19 06:44 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Peter McKenna Offline
old hand


Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 1173
Loc: Louisiana
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1
 Originally Posted By: Peter McKenna
 Originally Posted By: Shrike1



So I will ask again, in what universe is what Obama did "inviting foreigners into our election process"? We know there are numerous examples of DT doing so.

Greg


Please list these “numerous examples” that “we know” of.


Man you're slick. Since you can't answer my question you ask me to answer yours. I'll play this game for now. But if you would be so kind and answer my question I think it would be more fair.

Once is too many times and we know he did it at least twice in public with Russia and China & I will throw in Ukraine even though it was a little more than just inviting them.

But I guess "technically" you are correct there were not "numerous examples" that we know about.

Greg, I await your answer…


Well technically you didn't ask me the question, but here goes:

I agree that Obama getting caught on an open mike with that statement likely had nothing to do with foreign election interference. It apparently concerned nuclear weapons stockpile reductions (non quid pro quo). But it is difficult to suss out the actual context since he was caught on an open mike and the balance of the discussion is not available.

Now as to your stated three to four instances of Donald Trump's involvement with election interference:

I had not heard of any requested interference from China, so that is news to me.

As to Trump's request of Russian election interference; the two year multi-million dollar Mueller investigation found zero evidence of Turmp-Russia collusion. Zero. The only accusations which had any traction were Mueller's verbal accusations during the debrief to Congress of obstruction of justice (based primarily on Trump's acerbic social media posts). Did you watch the C-Span coverage?

As to the Ukraine accusation, Trump and his administration contends that Trump merely requested the Ukrainian government to investigate possible corruption via the then-sitting-Vice President, receiving a quid pro quo by way of providing Hunter Biden a half million dollar seat on a Ukrainian board of directors, a job which Hunter Biden had no qualification or experience in to support such a placement. It is incumbent upon the U.S. executive when providing foreign assistance to ensure the recipient government is not corrupt. Its called "due-diligence". This was brought out during the impeachment hearings on C Span. Did you watch these hearings?

Schiff absolutely refused to allow any discussion of possible Biden corruption during the impeachment hearings, BTW. This allowed him to control the narrative and point away from any due diligence on Trump's part.
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Peter McKenna

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#169458 - 12/14/19 06:54 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Peter McKenna]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
Peter, the question was not meant for you. I thought I had responded to "Little John". Sorry about that, but thanks for giving me an answer. And one that is obviously correct.

Greg

PS– Now I am confused. I thought the response to me regarding giving "numerous occasions or examples" of DT asking for Foreign help in elections was from "Little John" but it was actually you.


Edited by Shrike1 (12/14/19 07:03 PM)
Edit Reason: Confusion
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

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#169459 - 12/14/19 07:04 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Shrike1]
Peter McKenna Offline
old hand


Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 1173
Loc: Louisiana
I accidentally hit the submit button before I finished the post. Sorry I have fat thumbs.


BTW I am getting a huge number of hitchhiker spam hits coming from this site.


Edited by Peter McKenna (12/14/19 07:06 PM)
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Peter McKenna

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#169460 - 12/14/19 08:15 PM Re: Tailgunner Schiff [Re: Peter McKenna]
Shrike1 Online   content
veteran


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1363
Loc: Greenville, NC
The Mueller report and I believe all of the other investigations (Senate intelligence committee being one) and all of our intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion. Only hours after Donald Trump’s infamous ”Russia, if you’re listening…” invitation, the Russians began hacking the DNC servers. It is also a fact that the Trump campaign welcomed the help and used it. Every report also says that the Russian help was to benefit Trump and his campaign and to hurt Hillary Clinton.

The fact that Mueller did not find evidence of a criminal conspiracy does not negate the fact that DT asked for the Russians help and they provided it.

No, I did not watch the C-SPAN coverage but I did see all of the coverage of both the Mueller report and the impeachment hearings.

As for your Ukraine explanation, it doesn’t hold water. If DT was so worried about Ukraine corruption and especially Joe Biden and his son why did he give Ukraine aid the previous times when all of the information about Joe Biden and his son was already well known? The only reason he held up the money this time around was because Joe Biden entered the presidential race and was the front runner in the early polls showing that he did the best against DT out of all of the other candidates. DT only began to do his “Due diligence” once he recognized a strong opponent.

But even that is giving DT too much credit. All of the agencies had already cleared Ukraine to receive the money authorized by the Congress with bipartisan support. If DT wasn’t satisfied and wanted to hold up the support there was a way to do that through the proper channels. This was all in the hearing. Instead, he sent Rudy Giuliani and his cronies to Ukraine and put them in charge of doing his dirty work. And at no point during the military aid hold up was there any reason given for it. Not one reason. Everyone was confused because they were given no explanation.

In fact it was probably illegal for DT to put such a hold on authorized congressional funding.

As for his China invitation, it happened during a short press conference when he was explaining what he hoped Ukraine would do about Joe and his son. He said that China should investigate them as well.

Greg
_________________________
Words can't define what I feel inside
Who needs them? -- Smashing Pumpkins "GEEK U.S.A."

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